18 Q. Let me ask you about another e-mail. I
19 think we have seen this. This is Exhibit 2, and it's
20 also 3714. Do you see where it says, "Following up with
21 a phone call from earlier today I wanted to get a
22 meeting on calendars to discuss the opportunity with
23 Shift4"?
24 A. I do.
25 Q. And that's going, where -- to whom?

8 BY MR. STUARDI:
9 Q. Okay. Good. I'm going to show you what's
10 been previously marked as Exhibit 26, also Bates-stamped
11 SHIFT4-00003498.
12 If you could take a look at that e-mail. Do
13 you see that this is an e-mail from J.D. Oder, and it's
14 sent to an individual named Michael J. Ling on
15 April 15th, 2017?
16 A. I do.
17 Q. Do you know who Michael J. Ling is?
18 A. No, sir.
19 Q. The e-mail indicates that Mr. Oder
20 previously spoke with Mr. Ling.
21 MR. GASKILL: Objection to form.
22 BY MR. STUARDI:
23 Q. And Mr. Oder is offering his phone number;
24 correct?
25 A. This e-mail?

1 Q. Yes, sir.
2 A. I do.
3 Q. Is that your complete phone number?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. Does that have your area code in for your
6 phone number.
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. Did you ever have an e-mail exchange with
9 anyone at Shift4 utilizing the address that you sent this
10 e-mail to on April 15, 2017?
11 A. I don't recall.
12 Q. Did you ever have a phone conversation with
13 anyone at Shift4 utilizing the phone number that you sent
14 to an individual at Shift4 in this e-mail?
15 A. Many times through the normal course of
16 business when supporting this product.
17 Q. Did you provide your personal cell phone
18 number when doing that?
19 A. I did not.
20 Q. Why did you send this e-mail to
21 Michael J. Ling?
22 MR. GASKILL: Objection to form.
23 THE WITNESS: I don't recall what the context
24 of this specific e-mail's about.
25 BY MR. STUARDI:

19 Q. During the course of your employment with
20 CardConnect, around March, April of 2017, did you ever
21 learn what the TOR browser was?
22 A. Did I ever learn what it was?
23 Q. Yes.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. How did you learn about the TOR browser?

1 A. I am going to say I was probably told by J.D.
2 Oder what it was.
3 Q. Did you ever express any opinions or, you
4 know, beliefs as to whether the use of a TOR browser
5 was appropriate or okay?
6 A. You know, I don't know if I was ever asked
7 about, like, my opinions on the TOR browser.
8 Q. I am not saying you were asked. I am
9 saying did you ever express any opinions on it.
10 A. No.
11 Q. You didn't volunteer any opinions?
12 A. No.
13 Q. You did not consider the discussion of the
14 TOR browser to be a red flag; is that correct?
15 MR. GASKILL: Objection to form.
16 THE WITNESS: Will you repeat that?
17 (Whereupon, the pending question was read back
18 by the court reporter.)
19 THE WITNESS: I don't believe I felt it was a
20 red flag.
21 BY MR. STUARDI:
22 Q. Did J.D. Oder, or perhaps someone else from
23 Shift4, ever give you any indication that by utilizing
24 the TOR browser they would somehow be more anonymous or
25 their communications would be more secure?

1 MR. GASKILL: Objection to form.
2 THE WITNESS: I don't remember that
3 specifically.
4 BY MR. STUARDI:
5 Q. Okay. I am going to hand you --
6 MR. STUARDI: Is that 34 on their exhibit
7 list?
8 MR. GASKILL: Yes.
9 MR. STUARDI: Okay.
10 BY MR. STUARDI:
11 Q. I am showing you what's been marked as
12 Exhibit 34.
13 MR. GASKILL: 43?
14 MR. STUARDI: 34. I am only showing him one
15 e-mail.
16 BY MR. STUARDI:
17 Q. So in this exhibit --
18 A. Okay.
19 Q. -- you okay to look at it?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. In this exhibit do you recognize your name
22 in this e-mail?
23 A. I do.
24 Q. This is an e-mail involving a number of
25 individuals; is that correct?

1 A. That's correct.
2 Q. And, in particular, I want to direct your
3 attention to the top of the e-mail. Do you see where
4 there is an e-mail address,
5 marketplace@onionmail.org.
6 A. I do.
7 Q. Do you know what an onion e-mail address
8 is?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. How did you come to know about that, what
11 that was?
12 A. I would say I learned about that through
13 J.D. Oder.
14 Q. Did you ever use an onion e-mail address?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Did you ever try to, you know, communicate
17 with someone named J.D. Oder or anyone else from
18 Shift4, or anyone at all, using an onion e-mail
19 address?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Was there any instruction provided by
22 Mr. Oder, or anyone else from Shift4 for that matter, to
23 you that using an onion e-mail address, you should
24 destroy any e-mails that you sent or received from that
25 e-mail address?

1 MR. GASKILL: Objection to form.
2 THE WITNESS: Yes, I recall that.
3 BY MR. STUARDI:
4 Q. And were you told why you should do that?
5 MR. GASKILL: Objection to form.
6 THE WITNESS: I don't recall what the
7 reasoning was for destroying the e-mails.
8 BY MR. STUARDI:
9 Q. When you communicated with anyone at Shift4
10 via an onion e-mail address, did you ever utilize any
11 type of code in your communications?
12 MR. GASKILL: Objection to form.
13 THE WITNESS: Yes.
14 BY MR. STUARDI:
15 Q. Okay. And how did you learn, or how did
16 you know, what codes to use?
17 A. I believe the code would be, you know, like
18 an area code of, you know, someone's phone number.
19 Q. So when you say "area code" --
20 A. Of a phone number.
21 Q. Right. What do you mean by "area code,"
22 like 215?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. And why would that be utilized?
25 MR. GASKILL: Objection to form.

1 THE WITNESS: Just to protect the identity of
2 who they were, I suppose.
3 BY MR. STUARDI:
4 Q. And who suggested that you use the code?
5 A. I would say I was told to use the code by
6 J.D. Oder.
7 Q. And directing your attention to the top
8 e-mail again, there are other people in this e-mail
9 chain that, like yourself, have onion e-mail addresses;
10 correct?
11 A. That's correct.
12 Q. Do you know who those individuals are, the
13 ones with the onion addresses?
14 A. I believe I do.
15 Q. Do you know who they are?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Who are they?
18 A. I believe this one is Mike Bryan, and I --
19 the other one I believe is Taylor. I don't know how
20 to -- I don't know how to pronounce his last name.
21 Q. And when you say "Taylor," are you talking,
22 to your knowledge, about Taylor Candela?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And where did those two individuals work at
25 the time of this communication?

1 MR. GASKILL: Objection to form.
2 THE WITNESS: At CardConnect.
3 BY MR. STUARDI:
4 Q. Did you come to learn that, through the use
5 of a TOR browser, if you delete e-mails, it can never be
6 retrieved?
7 MR. GASKILL: Objection to form.
8 THE WITNESS: I don't recall.
9 BY MR. STUARDI:
10 Q. Have you ever had -- strike that.
11 Did you ever have any e-mail communications
12 with anyone from Shift4 wherein they encouraged you to
13 communicate using a TOR browser?
14 MR. GASKILL: Objection to form.
15 THE WITNESS: Yes.
16 BY MR. STUARDI:
17 Q. Who at Shift4 suggested that?
18 A. J.D. Oder.
19 Q. Did he ever encourage you to download
20 Signal on your phone?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Did you do that?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Did he ever encourage you to utilize that
25 application to send text messages that would destroy

1 themselves, or did you ever do that?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And you did that with communications with
4 J.D. Oder?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Do you recall when you downloaded, or did
7 that, you know, downloaded that app and did that with
8 J.D. Oder?
9 A. I don't remember exactly, but I did it
10 probably -- I am going to say within a week of meeting
11 J.D. Oder.
12 Q. Okay. Did you ever communicate via text
13 message on the Signal app with anyone else from
14 Shift4?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Okay. And who else did you communicate
17 with, and when did you communicate with that person
18 on -- using the Signal app?
19 A. I remember communicating with Nate Hirshberg
20 using the Signal app.
21 Q. Okay. And Nate Hirshberg worked at
22 Shift4; correct?
23 A. That's correct.
24 Q. And when did those communications occur?
25 A. I don't recall.

[Image of text messages - theoretical Processed]
[REDACTED]
just spoke to
[REDACTED]
Let them know
[REDACTED]
And
[REDACTED]
are open to
[REDACTED]
Friday at 3
[REDACTED]

[Image of text messages - theoretical Processed]
[REDACTED] I dont what to do.
I need to figure something out with you and
JD.

[Image of text messages - theoretical Processed]
Hey [REDACTED] good
talking to you earlier. If you get a chance can
you send me a few times that work for you
next week.

[Image of text messages - theoretical Processed]
Thanks [REDACTED]
Appreciate that.

[Image of text messages - theoretical Processed]
[REDACTED]

[Image of text messages ]
[REDACTED]

Subject:
From: JD Oder <jdo@shift4.com>
To: [REDACTED]

Hey [REDACTED]
How did everything go with your meeting on Friday?

[Image - theoretical Processed]
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